We're still here... ( - ;

Been quite a while since I've been on our blog. I haven't been active on ScootDawg much in the last 6-9 mos either. We've learned a lot in the last 18-20 mos (since we last posted) and can provide some interesting reading (all opinion of course) to those who would want to check it out.

The last four months have been very grueling for us here at Bandit MotorSports. As soon as the turmoil hit the financial markets in Sept and Oct, we were hit with ever slumping sales. We held out in Dec to see if there would be the usual pick-up in sales before Christmas but nothing happened. We were in a major 'rut'. Our expenses (overhead) exceeded our income and we had to make a move or fail as a business. We elected to move to a smaller facility with much less overhead - and try to concentrate on our internet business a little more by broadening the product offering into off-road vehicles and doing some extensive SEO to keep our website high in the search engines. I actually feel that we will have a good year even with the economy being the worst its been in some years ... simply because of the reduction in our operating costs.

The coming months will tell us much about what our 2009 season will be like. We've been having steady customer calls and e-mails - everyone doing their shopping - as people get their tax refunds. From some of our cusomter feedback we gather that many are going to use their refunds to 'stimulate' the economy and buy themselves a 'toy'. While we would love their business, we believe that it's important for consumers to realize that we (all of us) need to start consuming again. We can't rely on our government(s) to bail us out of this situation. Most of it comes to us buying things and consuming as we used to. That may be the real question though - will we ever consume at the level we did just 2 years ago?

One thing I do know for sure though, people are saving their money instead of spending, which is good except in times like these when consumption is going to save our butts. I fear that the general population doesn't understand this clearly and that we will fall into another 'depression'. It's possible, don't think it's not. The less we spend, the more troubled the economy will become, which in turn causes us to spend less and save more - which causes the economy to faulter even further. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy... and if you've been paying attention, it's basically been playing out for the last 4-6 months...

Well, enough with the bad stuff. Here at Bandit Motorsports, we are truly looking forward to a good year of sales and profits, and doin our parts as consumers to help 'bail us all out'. We hope many of you are on board with us... and we'll be tryin to post more often as things develop...

Later, Jim J...

Kymco (Brands) Vs Other Brands

This is a post I did on the Chinese Scooter Forum on Yahoo! It's got some decent info for comparative buying in regards to going with a brand name, or going Chinese...

Re: Kymco VS other brands

I've been watching the forum for some weeks now... and it appears thateveryone has their views and opinions on what is good and what is bad about the various brands. These discussions remind me alot of whatused to be debated (and still is) on the ScooterBBS...Now... to address a few items that have been floating around on thisforum in regards to Taiwanese brands and mainland china brands...

No.1 - Kymco and SYM are Taiwanese made. Both companies own and operate factories in mainland China and other parts of Asia. The reason why they operate these other factories is two-fold - one, to make cheap parts for the factories in Taiwan... and two, to make complete scooters for those huge markets (1B people plus each in Chinaand India). The Kymco and SYM bikes here in the US are Taiwan made...the VIN code gives it away...

No.2 - Kymco and SYM have been around for many years... since the1960's. Both have had collaberations with the Japanese brands, mainly so that Honda and Yamaha could break into the Taiwanese market. Honda and Kymco jointly developed the GY6 engine. The engine in your Roketa,Tank or whatever is not a GY6 engine... it is a GY6 clone - and not even a great one at that. Good enough for the mainland Chinese, but no where near the quality of the original...

No.3 - Kymco (and SYM) cost more because of the following:
a - It's ten times the bike as any of the mainland China brands.
b - There are dealers in most parts of the country.
c - All have a 2-year full warranty.
d - Parts can be had from any dealer.
e - It will last much longer and it will go much further.
g - It most likely won't ever need major servicing... or stop on theroad... and will start every time you need it to.
h - All of these points apply to all of the major brands. They areworth the cost if you have the money and have no desire to deal with amainland Chinese brand. If your only interest is to save a buck, you'll loose in short run...

No.4 - Roketa, Tank, SunL, Baron, Lance... and the like, all come frommainland China.
a - They are clones - nothing more... and in most cases, alot less...
b - Dealers are not as common - although they are all building their dealer bases. Bare in mind, a Roketa dealer is not a Honda dealer, and is no where near the same calibre. Someone will question this so I will explain in detail later...
c - Most off-brand bikes come with a parts warranty - but it really equates to an 'As-Is' type sale because you never know if you will get parts and tech help when you need them...
d - You can't get parts from Roketa or Tank to save your life... or theirs. But GY6 clone parts are pretty common at this time, if you know where to look. The off-brand 250cc engines are less reliable than the GY6 clones... because they are Honda and Yamaha 'clones'...
e - Off-brand bikes are not going to last... no matter how many hours you spend 'prepping' them, or how many parts you change out. They aren't designed to go for long periods... and there is little you can do to change that - other than to buy a Kymco or SYM...
f - Off-brand bikes are going to need lots of TLC - always... or until they die at least. You can expect something to 'fail' just like clockwork from day one - ie. a bad CDI at 500 km's, a bad rectifier at 1000kms'. You will have to service your own scooter because most dealers won't touch it. If you have a local off-brand dealer, take advantage of that fact.

If you enjoy working (tinkering) on your vehicles, then the off-brands are probably an excellent value for you. But most Americans want someone else take care of the scooter problems... so we, as a group, should always recommend a local purchase thru a brick and mortar dealer...

There really isn't any question as to why brand name bikes cost 2-3x the off-brands, it's because they are way better in all regards. The off-brands do make good 'starter' bikes - less of an investment to findout if scootering is your thing... but there are numrous 'cons' to go with the numerous 'pros'...

And who am I you ask? Well, I'm Jim J from Bandit MotorSports to be sure. I've been importing Bandit Scooters since Jan 2003... and I've been in and out of most of the off-brands as well as the name brands over these four plus years. I've ridden most brands, and serviced most as well. There are only a handful of people in the country who have the knowledge and experience of multiple brands to offer an opinion on all of them... Just some food for thought... or cannon fodder...

Thanks, Jim J...
Bandit MotorSports

QLink Commuter and Pegasus...

The new scooters are performing well both in riding and selling. The stand outs in the QLink line are the 152cc liquid-cooled Pegasus (big wheel) and the 244cc Commuter (Helix clone). Both provide excellent ride characteristics... I think the overall weight, wheel bas and tire size help the Pegasus even though it is only a 150cc class bike. The Commuter has more of a 'Cadillac glide' type of ride to it - even with the smaller 10" rear wheel. I've not hit any serious road debris or bumps, but on clean highway they both seem to do very well...

I think the Pegasus would be more of an ideal short commuter though... to work, school or other errands. Not as much back roads type riding... but it still could. The liquid-cooled engine seems to be very robust and it starts and rides every time I get ready to go. The exterior look is pretty good, decent functionality but not overly hi-tech. The dash is meager but still provides needed info. The seat is comfortable but at 32" on the wheels, it's for taller riders only. Body accents and details are good overall... there's even some decent storage boxes here and there. The 2-year warranty is the real plus though...

The Commuter could work well for in the city commuting as well as some back roads and highway cruises when the need presents itself. The larger engine provides plenty of power for crusing at 55-65 mph continuously, and the fuel tank and economy are large enough that you can ride for a while at least. The seat on the Commuter is much lower than most scooters at about 27" on the wheels. This provides a much lower center of gravity and probably lends something to the glide like ride. The one I ride is bright Yellow and I look like a huge banana cruising down the road - but I'm very visible which is very important. Most of the features on the Commuter are not great but they're good to have at least. There's more than ample storage for longer rides. And a rear passenger will be plenty comfortable with the rear cargo box / back rest...

I haven't really ridden any of the other QLink bikes for any great distance as of yet. I want to get some time with each model doing both in the city rides and then out on country roads. I'm really looking forward to the rides on the SYM RV 250 and HD 200 models as well...

Later, Jim J...

SYM and QLink Scooters added to the line up...

Well, we bit the bullet and added the QLink line to our showroom as well as the website. And just this week, we added the SYM scooter line imported by Carter Brothers... so we got their go-karts for the showroom as well...

The QLinks are top end Chinese equipment built by CF Moto... and only sold by dealers. QLink offers plenty of dealer enticements (and several for the consumer) as well as a 2-year limited full warranty on their scooters and motorycles. I think they will do well as a lower level entry line for several cusotomers new to the industry. The automatic motorcycles (Legacy and Sapero) seem to be generating good interest as most customers don't realize that automatic motorcycles are even available.

The SYM line is from Taiwan and imported exclusively by Carter Bros. SYM's are right on par with Kymco for quality but a little higher in the features arena, and a little lower in MSRP price and a 2-year warranty to match the Kymco's. I think there may be a reason for this but am not really sure... ( - ; I'm impressed with the packaging and ease of set up with the SYM's. I haven't had to deal with any parts orders or servicing issues from a dealers stand point... and actually hope that I won't do much of that at all.

The big wheel HD-125 and HD-200 appear to be very good products overall... liquid-cooled, 4-stroke, 4-valve engines with ceramic coated cylinders. The same goes for the RV-250 scooter, which is boasted to have performance capabilities similar to a Suzuki Burgy 400. I'll wait and see myself... ( - ;

The SYM's are going to be our upper end scooter line. I don't think we'll look at anything else higher... we are trying for the United Motors line which will be mostly south Korean stuff (Hyosung) but should be good for buss as well. If all goes as planned, we'll get one more line and then be set to go... ( - ;

We'll let you know as we go...

Thanks, Jim J...

Chinese 250cc Scooter Engines...

This is one my older posts on ScootDawg and explains the two different sizes and configurations of scooter engines currently available on Chinese scooters. Most will be the 244cc version as it costs much less to build than the 257cc version...


Greetings,

I thought I'd take a minute to address this question (or statement) since I had the opportunity to talk with a customer on the phone about again on Monday. It appears that there is a ton of confusion out there as to how many different 250cc engines there are for scooters coming out of China... and most of the confusion is caused by online sellers who don't have a clue in the least. I've talked to people on the phone about it, and read on this forum some interesting opinions. I read with amusement the thread from AJ in the general forum about his search for a new scooter - and what he found for HP ratings on the Roketa Bali 250. It's amazing what sellers will actually print...

http://scootdawg.proboards59.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1172981769

Well, at this time I'd like to clarify the entire 'mystery' as it is. I think that there are many people who understand that there are multiple engine sizes for 250cc scooter engines coming out of China, but how to identify them is whats not generally known. There are, of course, TWO engines in the 250cc scooter class coming out of China at this time.

The first, and way more common, is the 244cc CVT engine based on the Honda CN250 Helix and made by CF Moto. It's most apparent identifying marks are it's cylinder which lays backwards from the vertical position as shown in the photo. Another critical identification mark is the exhaust muffler shape, size and trim.



The second is the 257cc CVT engine based on the Yamaha YP250 Majesty and made by Linhai. The original YP250 was a 249cc engine at 69mm bore x 66.8 stroke. The 257cc version is just 1mm larger on the bore. The 257cc CVT engines most apparent identifying mark is that it's cylinder points towards the front wheel - or is in a horizontal position with the ground. It also has a distinctive exhaust to help identify it...





The stated HP rating of the 257cc CVT engine on the Linhai website is 18.75 HP. The stated HP rating of the 244cc CVT engine on the CF Moto website is 16.75 HP. If you can't believe the information from the manufacturers of the engines, then there's no need to print anything...

There are no 14 HP, 15 HP, 16,6 HP or 19.2 HP 250cc CVT engines coming from China. I have viewed online seller websites that indicate their scooter engine is a 249cc CVT engine size - for which there are none of those either.

The other main difference between the two engines, and a major selling point, is that they typically come mounted with different size wheels. The 244cc CVT engine can only mount a 10" wheel whereas the 257cc CVT engine can mount a 12" wheel. Rumor has it that CF Moto is extending the swing arm of its 244cc CVT engine so that it can accept the 12" wheels, but that is not confirmed as of yet. And the 257cc CVT engine will also have rear disc brakes over the drum brakes found in the 244cc CVT engine.

The main reason why I am posting this thread is because I had a customer (not mine) call and e-mail me last summer to tell me about a situation he was having with an online seller. This customer talked to the seller directly on the phone and told them that he wanted to buy a 250cc scooter that had the 257cc engine, the 12" wheels, would be bright red, and wouldn't have Roketa labels all over it. Of course, the seller told him that, yes, their scooter had the 257cc CVT engine with 12" wheels, would be bright red, and even though their scooter was built in the same factory as Roketa, it wouldn't have any Roketa stickers on it...

So the customer recieves the scooter. It has 10" wheels, is a dark burgundy color and is covered with Roketa stickers. And with my help, he identified the motor as being the 244cc engine (vertical cylinder). Furious that he's been lied to when he asked them directly about the specs, he calls to explain what happened and what information he found with my help. They told him that I was lying. Nothing about their own lies or misrepresentation of their products. They tried very hard to convince him that I was lying about my scooters having 257cc engines and that no one really did for that matter. Last I heard, he sued their panties off and won...

Anyways, my main goal with this thread is to shed some light as to what TWO CVT engines are available from China in the 250cc class scooters... and how to easily identify each one... and how to catch a seller in an outright lie if they are misrepresenting...

Hello Scooter Enthusists!

We've been posting regularly to ScootDawg so we thought we'd start a blog as well. We hope to write several good technical posts so that anyone with Chinese made scooters may benefit from them. We hope to be good contributors for the general blog community...

Thanks, and let's see what comes...